Thanks for your views on Trish’s post entitled “Bleeding”.

In it you pose the questions:

“After all, if we leave our denomination, haven’t “they” won? And isn’t it just as much OUR Methodist Church as THEIRS? If we bail out on our church, who will be left to bring about change?”

These are all questions which I and many members of the congregation of which I am a part continually ask ourselves. As of yet, we still remain officially affiliated with the umc, but for most of us this is not an intentional thing; it is an accident of history.

Our congregation’s 158+ years of existence is long and complex, and since its conception its has known many cycles of fear, exclusion, anger, resolve, response, and new mission. We have been subjected to ethnic prejudices, we have been exiled to the suburbs, and we have been outcasts in our own demonination. Despite this, we have been able to spawn new churches, reach out to a changing neighborhood, and minister during epidemics of yellow fever, HIV, and intolerance — to name but a few.

I view the GLBT issue as just the most recent cycle in our long history. The way we got through all of the previous cycles was just to remember WHO we are and WHOSE we are and to act accordingly. We did not so much worry what others were saying of doing; we saw the situation, asked what the Gospel/Spirit (as we understood it) was calling us to do about it, discovered what we COULD do about it, and then we DID it. In this light, the other questions are then not so important.

As I see it, it is our call to be prophetic and to serve. This is what it means to be Church. This was Jesus’ call; it must be ours as well. So far the effort have been fruitful — Thanks be to God!

Have we made a poitive difference? I think so.
Could we have done more? Definitely.
Is there more to be done? Absolutely!

May the next epidemic we have be one of prophecy. Amen.

Your “Bleeding” essay is so powerful. Personally, I don’t see “this problem” as being solely with our denomination because most Protestant denominations have their share of members who condemn homosexuality. For some reason, it seems as though people somehow differentiate between issues having to do with race as opposed to sexuality. The fact that we were all created as sexual beings gives everyone some deeply personal thoughts or feelings about sexual issues. We can think this or that about people with a different skin color than ours but it generally doesn’t carry the intensely personal reaction as those of a sexual nature. My thougts are that men especially seem to feel a deep level of abhorance to anything of a sexual nature involving men with other men. Women, on the other hand, seem to be somewhat more understanding, on some level, of an almost universal desire that we share the need for close friendships / relationships with other women.

I’ve just never thought of it as being as much a problem with my denomination as it is with just human nature. Despite my disappointment in my church, my Methodist upbringing overrides the negative feelings when it comes to issues of the lack of acceptance of those of us who are different. Frankly, I’m sick and tired of the term Homosexual….and would just rather consider myself to have different feelings about some things. ie. I have brown eyes, am 5 ft. 2, age blah blah..lol…and I prefer loving another woman than a man.

Yes, Trish…it deeply saddens me that my denomination still puts “us” in a different light, judging us when scripture says only God is to be our judge. Our world is slowly changing as more and more of the younger people seem to be more accepting of us than ever before, and many of them are in today’s congregations. They see our gifts to the community, they enjoy our fellowship, our talents, our likes and differences, and seem generally accepting … as long as we treat them with the same respect as we wish to be treated, ie. don’t hit on them! After all, if we leave our denomination, haven’t “they” won? And isn’t it just as much OUR Methodist Church as THEIRS? If we bail out on our church, who will be left to bring about change?

About a year after I had left my marriage and come out to my children, my son Mark called one evening to tell me about a book he’d just been reading by Philip Yancey, called What’s So Amazing About Grace? In it, he has a chapter about his friendship with Mel White. Mark said that it had really opened his eyes to the reality of so many of the issues that I, his mother, had been dealing with all these years, and in tears, he asked me for my forgiveness for anything he may have said that was hurtful. Not realizing that he was still wrestling with his issues of his mother’s sexuality, it was such a healing moment for both Mark and myself. Praise God…and thank you, Philip Yancey!

If you’re a reader, I’d suggest you grab a copy because it’s encouraging to note that at least some Christians recognize the value of God’s grace as well as the need for our own grace when we have differences with others. As Yancey states, “We all fall short!” He quotes Dostoevsky, “To love a person means to see that person as God intended that person to be.” Most of us have always felt “the way we feel” and most have prayed for God to change us. When that doesn’t happen, wouldn’t one think that “this must be what God intended for me to be…cause God doesn’t make junk?”

Thank you, Trish, for another terrific, thought-provoking lesson!

Joy

I should probably mention that Edna came in to the hospice too weak to talk, but she nodded when I asked her if she we like to pray. We prayed with confidence.

In three days our church will have a “trial run” with our Project U kids as training for the adults as we begin our new ministry of inviting homeless teens to our church for dinner on Saturday nights I wonder how many Edna’s we will encounter, and how we will be Christ’s love in their world. It is my hope and prayer that we can at least open a window into the sacred for these teens who live in an all to hostile secular world.

Tim Ramsey

My life’s greatest ceremony is akin to last week’s meditation on self-discipline: although I may occasionally prefer to sleep in, it is far more ceemonial to spirit-walk through the early morning hours and greet each new day with God, singing birds, sun rays and my lover.

My life’s greatest church ceremony is participating as a leader in worship, especially the act of offering communion. On serving the wine, I say to each child of God, “The Love of the New Covenant, given to you this day.” When I receive communion, I pray with the bread “We are loved” and I pray with the wine “We are to love.” I like to stand during communion. I stand with the Risen Christ.

Art and iconographic imagery of Christ’s crucifixion too often focus on the crown of thorns, or the spear in the side, or the nails through hands / wrists. His feet, too, were nailed; but in preceding days, these feet were anointed with an exotic perfume and dried in the hair of Mary from Bethany.